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(@charles)
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Feb 4, 2020 2:39 pm  

Some of the storylines involving Manifest's timelines often cause me to "Think Out Loud!" When reading comments at other sites, I'm somewhat surprised how many in the viewing audience aren't aware of some of the important watershed dates. For example, the Stone twins birthday. Thanks to Dr. Miller, we know when Cal Stone was actually born because he said, "Okay, here we go. This is an unusual case. Male born April 19, 2002. Initial diagnosis was back in 2011." Logic suggests that if Cal was born on April 19, 2002, then so was his twin sister, Olive. The twins will be 17-years old on April 19, 2019.

We, the audience, know about the June 2, 2024 death date. This is an easy date to calculate. Just do the math. Subtract the disappearance date from the return date. For example, 2018 11 04 minus 2013 04 07. The answer is 5 years, 6 months, and 28 days. Add the 5, years, 6 months, and 28 days to 2018 11 04 and the answer's 2024 06 02. The death date was easy to determine. James Griffin's death date was easy to calculate because it was calculated after the fact. What about Zeke Landon? Exactly on what day did he die in December 2017? Does he himself know the exact day and time of day he died? Does anyone know the exact day and time of day he returned in December 2018?

Michaela said Zeke has only 8-months left. This means the story is currently unfolding at some point in time in April 2019. Do the math. From April to December is 8-months. Exactly when Zeke is supposed to die in December remains an unanswered question. The same is true when it comes to Grace giving birth to her baby girl. What is Grace's expected delivery date? Will the baby be given a name before she's born? Some in the viewing audience want answers. Especially when those answers have absolutely nothing to do directly with revealing the secrets involving Flight 828's disapearance and return. 

Does the Stone family celebrate holidays? The family obviously skipped Thanksgiving. Why? They had nothing to be thankful for? What about Christmas and New Year's? Did Grace and Olive give Danny a Christmas gift or secretly give him a kiss under the mistletoe? What about Valentine's Day? Did Danny send Grace and Olive a dozen Roses and a box of candy? Of course, I'm being facetious here. But I'm not the one who made Danny Grace's impossible-to-get-rid-of "sperm donor" lover. Then too, maybe holidays don't exist in this version of Manifest's reality. 

But whether holidays in the world of Manifest exist or not, I'll continue to "Think Out Loud!" And I will continue to watch and see if Zeke's exact death date is determined. The same holds true with Grace. I look forward to knowing her expected delivery date. Then and only then will I be able to accurately synchronize these two particular storylines and timelines in my mind. If I'm unable to do so, what is the point of watching Manifest? To enjoy all of the carnage surrounding the endless soap opera-infested love triangles? Or to wait for more questions to be added? Nope. I'm not enjoying any of the love triangles; or the continuation of additional unanswered questions. Period.


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(@charles)
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Feb 5, 2020 11:56 pm  

... the June 2, 2024 death date. This is an easy date to calculate. 

To make calculating the date even easier, on-line calculators are available.

Difference between Apr 7, 2013 and Nov 4, 2018:

5 years 6 months 28 days
or 66 months 28 days
or 291 weeks 0 days
or 2037 calendar days

... and ...

Sunday 11/4/2018 + 5 years, 6 months, 28 days
 
Actual date Calculated is Saturday 6/1/2024.
Results show next business day.
 

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(@charles)
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Feb 23, 2020 12:13 am  

So, Zeke has a severe case of frostbite ... symptoms which showed up immediately after he effortlessly lifted a 300-plus degree heavy-weighted beam off Bethany Collins; saving her life. Many fans immediately assumed that Zeke's frostbite is a sign that his death date (December 2019) is here. 

Michaela said Zeke has only 8-months left.

That is what Mick said in E4; the episode in which Logan Strickland's "stuck on stupid" robbery of a bank's safety deposit box happened. Zeke's death date is in December. I'm not arguing whether fans are correct or not. But I can make the logical argument that Grace will give birth at least 3-months before it's time for Zeke to kick the bucket; according to the Grim Reaper's death date time clock.

But who knows? Maybe the story's taking place in an alternate universe where time as a concept doesn't exist.

However, in our universe, the inability to know what time it is within a storyline currently has some fans hopelessly lost in a bottomless time-pit. I know that I'm beating a dead horse. But I'll say it again. The producers and writers have made the timelines within the storylines so confusing that some fans are now jumping to absurd false conclusions.  


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(@charles)
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Mar 10, 2020 3:30 pm  

If my memory is correct, Michaela's last reference to Zeke's death date was that he had 6-months left before his time expired. So, what does Zeke's frostbite symptoms really mean?

... Zeke's frostbite is a sign that his death date (December 2019) is ...

Why is he freezing to death 6-months before his death date? Did he start freezing to death before he died in December 2017? I'm confused when it comes to some of the storylines and timelines; which isn't something that's out of the ordinary for me. But what is going on with Zeke? Whatever's happening to him doesn't make sense.

He saves Bethany Collins' life by lifting a heavy, hot beam off of her body. Then what happens? He's punished by getting frostbite and having his death date accelerated 6-months ahead of schedule? WTH is going on? Btw how much time does Grace have left before she gives birth? Or will the birth of her baby also be accelerated? 


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(@charles)
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Mar 24, 2020 10:33 am  

Two weeks ago, I made the comment:

If my memory is correct, Michaela's last reference to Zeke's death date was that he had 6-months left before his time expired. 

This week Grace indicated regarding the story timewise, between episodes 10 and 11, four months has passed. How did she indicate to the audience there had been a four month time-jump? She said that her newborn daughter, Eden, was due her four month medical checkup. 

There have been 3-time jumps during season 2. The first was a 2-month time-jump. This was the time-jump between the time Michaela was shot in S1 and released from the hospital in S2. The second time-jump was one-month. This took place between the time Zeke walked out of court free (thanks to Michaela throwing Jared under the bus) to when he met Michaela at Logan Strickland's in-progress bank robbery. How do we know about this one-month time-jump? Ben told Grace in the same episode there had been no Callings in a month.

Then there was this week's, episode 11, four month time-jump. All total, the 3-time jumps equal to 7-months. Excluding the time-jumps, everything else took place in the remaining months. Grace gave birth prematurely. Two months early? So, Grace was 7-months pregnant when Eden was born? Eden is now 4-months old? Seven plus four equals 11. Which means Zeke has less than a month to live?

If my math or anything else here is incorrect, please correct it. You may be as viciously harsh in your criticism as you desire. I'm not thin-skinned. I'm a big boy and can take a punch.


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(@charles)
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Mar 25, 2020 3:41 pm  

Here's a bit of trivia. In none of the storylines and timelines was it ever revealed that Michaela met Danny. I know. It's not important. That's why I'm framing this nonevent as trivia. As an observer who has paid close attention, I find it odd that Michaela advised Grace to let Ben know about Danny before he found out from someone else; but never actually met him herself.

Who knows? Maybe Manifest is like The Witcher... seamlessly operating within separate and distinct storylines based on different timelines.


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(@marygrace)
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Mar 25, 2020 5:33 pm  

I am willing to concede that Michalea and Danny never met. However, after Michaela was shot and there was the "chance" meeting with Grace and Olive on the Upper West Side, Danny did inquire about Michaela's health. Interesting that he obviously knows about Michaela

Another question that puzzles me is why on earth did Ben not ask Michaela to run a background/"wants and warrants" check on Danny? She has done other "inappropriate" police work for him in S1 and S2. Why not find out about the guy who had been (is) screwing his wife before and after the plane came back. He would at least want some intelligence on the guy after he found out he had actually knocked up my wife, leading to a miscarriage. What kind of STD's has he passed on to Mrs. Stone? Was the "SCUBA scar" sexually related? What about Olive? Is the guy a sexual predictor? Who knows? He may be a great guy, rich, philanthropic, a God fearing Christian. Who knows? I know I have posed these questions before and there was "oh yeah" agreement but the questions about Danny's background has yet to be revealed in any way. Just mystifying! 

That is all,

Mary Grace

@charles


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(@charles)
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Mar 25, 2020 7:12 pm  

Thanks @MaryGrace Your thought-provoking comments never fail to activate my brain cells ... the few I have remaining.

Interesting that he obviously knows about Michaela.

And Michaela and Ben don't know as much about him as he does about them? They know about the Major and the death date; but know absolutely nothing about the man who moved in with Grace and Olive? It's an omitted storyline which makes no sense to me. Apparently, Michaela and Ben were more interested in Zeke not being legally married to Courtney than they were the man who once legally resided in the Stone family house when they disappeared.

... questions about Danny's background has yet to be revealed in any way.

I agree. It's something that's "just mystifying!" The only thing Ben has ever done was to ask Grace if she loved the man who replaced him. She never answered ... just like nothing about Danny has ever been answered. I hope that I'm wrong; but I don't think the writers really care if we ever know about Danny's background or anything else that's significant when it comes to connecting the plot points to the storylines. 

It's as if the writers are only going through the motions when it comes to the details involving the storytelling. Their attitude seems to be, "it doesn't matter what we do or how we do it, we're dealing with stupid sci-fi fans." I know the stories in Manifest are fictitious. But most fans, like you and me, are puzzled why a man in Ben's position wouldn't have his sister who was a police detective "find out about the guy who was (is) screwing his wife."

Thanks MaryGrace, you're the best of the best.


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(@tjlevi)
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Mar 25, 2020 10:40 pm  

It's been a while since I have engaged in this forum but better late than never. Some of the loose ends that cause a side to side movement of my head, aka SMH are:

  • Obviously I'm on the same page in regards to the Danny character. Who knows if he is good or bad? Does it matter this season. Unless S2E13 is totally devoted to that character, it will be S3 before they can possibly close that chapter.
  • When was Calvin cured? I do not recall the scene with Ben, Grace, and the program doctors proclaiming "your son is cured!" Just don't recall that.
  • When was Olive cured of her deep depression and no longer required therapy how ever many times a week she was going. In my opinion from the scenes in S1, Olive was the actual grounded and rational female of the two Stone women. Yes, she did some stupid stuff but she was 16 years old (15 according to Grace) on Shoplifting/Screw her boyfriend for the supposed last time day.
  • Michaela, okay, well she screwed a married man and now that she will be married, supposedly, if all goes well, in S2E12, will she, as a married woman, continue the trend and screw the same guy only she is married and he is not (maybe). Which brings up my last question for now.
  • When did Loures and Jared get a divorce? It has not been a year since she took off about 12/18/2018 (day 44). I've never been divorced but 10 months or so seems like short time to get a divorce finalized. Judges usually want cooling off time, arbitration, and then the lawyers get involved. There is no evidence they are divorced or even legally separated.

Okay, I said last question so let it be so.

@marygrace (my lovely niece) and @charles (knower of all things)


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(@charles)
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Mar 26, 2020 11:55 am  

Welcome back @tjlevi Your honesty, insight, and wisdom have been missed more than you'll ever realize.

As I recall, it was you who first pointed out that Olive was 17-years old on her last birthday and could legally have sex with whomever she wanted. Thanks for making that point. For me, it was something that helps when it comes to keeping the overall story in perspective. 

When it comes to Olive, I recommend that everyone read the forum topic you authored, What is teen Olive about? The topic is now more relevant than ever.

The marriage conundrums presented in the relationships involving Jared, Lourdes, Michaela, Zeke, Courtney, and Tamara are more like the promotion of couples involved in swinging and open marriage activities than engaging in romantic and loving relationships. Not to mention the Grace, Ben, and Danny relationship-filled orgy of babies daddies.

Relationships which make the question you asked even more relevant, "when did Lourdes and Jared get a divorce?" Here's another question I've had but was reluctant to ask until now, "If Ben was declared legally dead, does that mean he and Grace were no longer legally married?" 

Again, welcome back Tom.


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(@tjlevi)
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Mar 26, 2020 12:12 pm  

On "If Ben was declared legally dead, does that mean he and Grace were no longer legally married?" I checked with some lawyer friends and they said that in NY that if the legally dead spouse returns after being declared legally dead, then that marriage is automatically reinstated and any current marriage is void. So if Grace and Dany had been married, that marriage would no longer be valid. She would have to have divorced Ben in absentia in order to stay married to Danny. Or divorce Ben when he returned and remarry Danny. Neither things happens so for once the writer accidentally got the law right.

These laws went probably written by family law layers to make it not simple.

Thanks for the complements @charles


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(@charles)
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Mar 26, 2020 1:04 pm  

... for once the writer accidentally got the law right.

Thanks for the information, Tom. I must admit that I'm highly critical of the writers at times. But to be fair to them, I honestly don't think they know how the story ends. When it comes to sci-fi creativity and imagination, they have presented some outstanding concepts, e.g., dark lightning, the human collective consciousness, the Mirror Factor, the Yusuv Al-Zuras journal, special effects-related callings, etc.

But when it comes to following and connecting the endless storylines, it's like searching for a needle in a haystack. As I see it, the writers also don't know where the needle in the haystack is located. It's good to know the writer accidentally got the law right in this particular instance. Not blaming the writers per se; but so many things are wrong when it comes to the writing; many of plots involving the storytelling border on the ridiculous. JMO

"Thanks for the complements"

You're welcome ... and you're deserving!

@tjlevi


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(@charles)
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Apr 22, 2020 12:35 am  

An excellent post elsewhere on this site by Carol Wray really ignited my curiosity about Michaela and Zeke's "Love and Marriage" timeline. Let's start from the beginning. Cal who was in his bed (suffering from frostbite) had the "Find Her" Calling about Zeke first (110.30). Unaware and not knowing anything about Zeke, Michaela would later intercept Zeke's "Find Her" Calling and of course ... misinterpret it:

When she tugs on Paul Santino’s shirt she receives a calling, “Find Her!” while Paul Santino begins waking up (110.7). 

Michaela searches for and "finds" Paul Santino's wife; the wife he had abused. Let's not forget about what happened between Michaela and Jared:

Michaela goes to work at the 119th Police Precinct. Feeling guilty about having sex with Jared the night before, she does her best to avoid him, and askes Captain Riojas if its okay that she work on a different (cf. 111.3).

Michaela again has the Find Her! Find Her! Calling while sitting at her desk. And then this is what she said to Jared:

Michaela says it doesn’t matter what happened five years ago. What matters in what they do now (111.3).

After Cal runs away, Michaela would later travel to join Ben, Grace, and Cal ... and meet Zeke for the first time. Don't forget. James Griffin has already drove his get-away van into the East River before the Stone's met and saved Zeke. From a radio news broadcast (112.6):

REPORTER: Expect low, frigid temperatures for the next four days. An hours-long high-speed chase throughout the boroughs ended in tragedy early this morning. The driver, the primary suspect in a brazen double homicide and theft of an armored car, plunged the stolen vehicle into the East River.

Sometimes being penetrated by a male lover does hurt

When Michaela returned from the mountains with Zeke, she immediately made him an offer he couldn't refuse, i.e., to live together in her apartment ... no strings attached. Shacking without immediately whacking? To make a long story short. James Griffin returns from the dead; and threatens to expose the 828'ers were gifted with Callings on NBC's Today Show. Zeke illegally purchased an illegal handgun to stop Griffin; but with Jared's help, ended up shooting Michaela in her apartment instead of showing her his undying gratitude. It was amazing how quickly Zeke could find a "shady" buyer and purchase an illegal handgun off the streets after disappearing for a year.

After being shot, Michaela tells Zeke to run. He does. Two months later, after she is released from the hospital; Cal finds Zeke and Zeke finds Michaela. He is arrested and pleads guilty to illegal possessing the handgun that was used to shoot Michaela. He enters a guilty plead where he goes straight to jail without any regrets. Scratch the regrets. Michaela throws Jared under the bus and Zeke is miraculously released. Praises be unto the Peacock

What happens next? Does he now set up permanent residence in Michaela's apartment? No he doesn't. He disappears and shows up exactly one month later where he met Michaela (connected by Calling) at Logan Strickland's "safe deposit box" bank heist. After the heist was peacefully resolved, Michaela and Zeke immediately returned to her apartment and turned it into an "all good things" love nest. Let's do the math. When everything is counted ... and everything does count ... Michaela and Zeke spent less than a week (in combined total days) together before permanently shacking-up after the bank robbery? Why did they then decide to wait twice as long, i.e., months later before getting married on the day before Zeke's death date?

Could the answer have been they both thought that time was running out on them being together? Or was it because they knew that "time waits for no one?"


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